Gay “Christians” – WTF?
I once heard a Christian pastor state that a gay person could not be a Christian because homosexuality is an abomination against god. Since that day, i’ve heard this same sentiment repeated many times over, by Christians far and wide. So where do they get this from? Well, lets check it out ourselves and see what we can find…..
If you read the Bible closely, you’ll find that it does appear that the Christian God does not particularly care for homosexuals. To quote the Bible from Leviticus 20:13 – “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.”
I don’t know – if you ask me this sounds pretty straight forward. If you believe that the Bible is “God’s Word” and this is what the Bible says, then it would seem to follow logically that the Christian God not only considers homosexuals an abomination, but he also commands them to be put to death. And there really doesn’t seem to be much wiggle room for interpretation on this, either. So, I think I would have to agree with the heterosexuals who claim that a person can’t be gay and also be Christian: If this is what the Bible says, and if you believe the Bible is God’s Word, then you can pretty much read for yourself what his position on the matter is.
Given this evidence against them however, many gay people claim they are Christians and God loves them. Hmm…. did these people forget to read the Bible before they became Christians, or do they just enjoy deluding themselves? Personally if I wanted to live obscured in a cloud of self-reinforced delusion I would probably do drugs instead of Hallucinating for Jesus (more fun), but then again I would rather just deal with reality as it is and be done with it.
What do you think? Are gay Christians idiots, or do they know something the rest of us (including heterosexual Christians) don’t know?
Just for the record – of course my standpoint is that there’s nothing wrong with being gay, it isn’t a “sin” and religion is nothing more than a primitive tool used to brainwash and control the masses. ‘Nuff said!
August 28th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Religion is the only thing that makes homosexuals WRONG. We will never have equality until we change that. I agree, gay-Christians are delusional. As a practical matter their choice to be a Christian puts their inherited christian belief BEFORE their LGBT brothers and sisters. They are actively preventing us from gaining equality.
Glad you’ve started this Blog. Keep it up.
August 29th, 2009 at 4:20 am
Ahhh, but it is easier to believe in magic sky fairies than do accept the truth.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:51 pm
I’ll bite.
I am gay.
I am a Christian.
I have not only your quoted verse, but the other six verses of the Bible which are perceived to be speaking against homosexuality.
The method of reading the Bible you’re using is known as “biblical literalism,” which means you believe that the Bible should be read, word-for-word, as complete truth. This means you don’t read into anything, you don’t take anything as figurative language, and you don’t embrace complexity.
I like to read it differently.
I think it’s a fascinating history of the relationship between God and his people. I think it urges us to find our own place in that history.
I don’t believe it’s a book of rules.I don’t believe it’s exact truth. And I don’t believe in magic sky fairies.
Now that that’s out of the way, I also believe that an important part of reading scripture is context.
Leviticus was written for the Israelites right after leaving Egypt. They were a people without a culture wandering around the desert. So, a lot of the things that applied to their culture don’t apply to ours. Part of this is homosexuality. Another part of it is Kosher. Another part of is not blending fabrics. Another part of it is the year of Jubilee, in which all property is released, all bonds of slavery are broken, and all debts are forgotten. No one still practices all of these customs. They are part of an ancient culture (and consider for a second how astounding it is that so many parts of such an old culture are still practiced by modern Jews), but a culture apart from our own, which means there’s not much chance of modern people seeing eye-to-eye with ancient Israelites. It’s just too much embedded in who we are. But I realize that it’s not important to me to obey the customs of an ancient culture, though it is a fascinating one. Much of the New Testament is spent debating whether it is important to follow Jewish Customs or not, and the latter very much wins out.
Now, as for the New Testaments arguments of homosexuality, again context is important. The verses which speak against homosexuality are found in 1 Corinthians, 1 Timothy, and Romans, all of which are addressed to either the Greeks or the Romans. And if you’ve read up on Greek and Roman examples of homosexuality, you’ll know they’re not the healthiest in the World. Greeks and Romans had no concept of Homosexual monogamy or equality. To them, homosexuality was always a power relationship between an older, wealthy man, and a younger boy, and the older man was always in power. If you read the verses around the verse in 1 Corinthians, it appears in this massive re-ordering of power in relationships between man and wife, master and slave, the rich and the poor. So, it makes sense that Paul was saying he didn’t want to see that sort of power relationship in the early Christian community, because an important part of Jesus’s teachings is that everyone is called to serve everyone else, and the homosexuality that was practiced in ancient Greece and Rome was all about one person serving the other. All the time.
Now, here’s what I know that you don’t: I know that I’m not right all of the time. And I make sure to remember this. And when I disagree with someone, I think it’s important to try to see their point of view.
You’re making the same mistake here that those fundamentalists make, and not trying to see where Christians come from, because it’s easier to defend your current beliefs and tell yourself that we’re delusional pixie worshipers than to acknowledge that the matter might be a little complex, and you’re never going to understand it completely. It’s easier to simplify.
The other mistake you make is exactly the same as those Fundamentalists: you assume I chose to be a Christian, and at some point I read up on theology and decided it makes sense, but faith goes beyond that because it’s based in something higher than logic. Even if I left the church and told myself it was all a lie, I can’t make myself stop believing in God, because it’s a belief, not a thought. I can’t see something beautiful and make myself believe there’s not someone beautiful behind it anymore than you can make yourself believe in magic sky fairies.
I didn’t choose to be a Christian any more than I chose to be gay, and I couldn’t stop being either if I tried. It’s just who I am.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Johnny:
Ah yes, the old “I am taking it out of context” excuse – i’ve heard it many times before. As with most Christians, the Bible means what it says when it’s convenient, otherwise it’s taken out of context. That’s what all believers of all religions do, because that’s what all holy books were made for: confusing the masses of sheep with thousands and thousands of pages of cryptic, ambiguous nonsense, which leads them around and around in circles. It basically keeps the little people busy and pitted against each other (i.e. fundies vs libs, straights vs gays, christians vs muslims, etc) so those in power can focus on what they do best: staying in power. Works like a charm.
So you say you don’t believe in sky faries: but do you believe in virgin births? Zombies coming back to life and launching themselves into deep space? Talking animals? Angels? Demons? Devils? All of those are in the Bible (as well as countless other absurdities) and claimed as real, so either you believe them (literally), or you believe they are taken out of context and just figurative representations of something else?
As for not seeing where Christians are coming from – you are very wrong. I know where Christians are coming from because I was once one myself – I was raised in a very conservative fundamentalist household. Where we differ is that I am a skeptic and don’t believe what I am told “just because” or because someone tells me to “have faith”. If there’s no rational or intellectual basis for belief in something, then why believe?
September 1st, 2009 at 4:52 am
Dude, I applaud your cut-throat grasp of reality,dare I say,the truth?. I love it.